Author Topic: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)  (Read 47998 times)

WayoshiM

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #135 on: March 12, 2013, 11:44:32 AM »
... Flower Saver?

No no no, you HAVE to have Heart Finder to make everything work.
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mariozeldascatmanfan

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #136 on: March 12, 2013, 05:35:58 PM »
... Flower Saver?

No no no, you HAVE to have Heart Finder to make everything work.
In other words I've effectively screwed myself over.... Crap >.<
The Toad House's slogan is...
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Back from the dead? I think so.

jdaster64

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #137 on: March 13, 2013, 12:35:58 AM »
I would say you could get by without it, but it's definitely risky.  Especially since it probably means you don't have the Star Pieces for Item Hog either.

mariozeldascatmanfan

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #138 on: March 13, 2013, 03:26:56 PM »
Well I'm skilled enough on my own to get to floor 60, but after that I think luck plays an indefinent role because I have been hurting on finding hearts :P
The Toad House's slogan is...
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Back from the dead? I think so.

WayoshiM

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #139 on: March 13, 2013, 07:41:24 PM »
Flower Saver just isn't worth 10 of your limited 15 star pieces for this run. You have a bunch of Sweet Treats, you hardly miss Flower Saver.
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mariozeldascatmanfan

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #140 on: March 13, 2013, 08:00:51 PM »
Flower Saver just isn't worth 10 of your limited 15 star pieces for this run. You have a bunch of Sweet Treats, you hardly miss Flower Saver.
I noticed, I may play up to that point again just so I have a better shot at doing it. I haven't tried in a long time, hopefully I'm still decent.
The Toad House's slogan is...
"Refresh your Body and Soul!"
Back from the dead? I think so.

ParadoX

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #141 on: March 31, 2013, 05:39:44 AM »
Here is the ideal combos in a Pre-Hook Pit Run for maximum level ups (information used to calculate is from jdaster64)
Floor   Most Star Point Combo
1   Gloomba, Dull Bones - Let Dull Bones clone
2   Spinia,Spania,Spinia,Spania,Spinia
3   4 Spanias or Spania,Fuzzy,Spania,Fuzzy
4   4 Dull Bones - Let Dull Bones clone
5   5 Fuzzies
6   Gloomba, Dull Bones - Let Dull Bones clone
7   Spinia,Spania,Spinia,Spania,Spinia
8   4 Spanias or Spania,Fuzzy,Spania,Fuzzy
9   4 Dull Bones - Let Dull Bones clone
11   Paragoomba, 2 Pokeys - Let the Pokeys clone
12   4 Clefts
13   P0key, Pider, Pokey, Pider - Let the Pokeys clone
14   Dark Puff, Pokey, Dark Puff - Let the Pokeys clone
15   2 Piders, 2 Pokeys - Let the Pokeys clone
16   Paragoomba, 2 Pokeys - Let the Pokeys clone
17   4 Clefts
18   P0key, Pider, Pider, Pokey - Let the Pokeys clone
19   Dark Puff, Pokey, Dark Puff - Let the Pokeys clone
21   2 Spiky Gloombas, 2 Boos
22   Bandit, Boo, Bandit, Boo, Bandit
23   2 Lakitus, 2 Bob-ombs - Let the Lakitus toss Spiny Eggs
24   2 Bob-ombs, 2 Boos
25   4 Boos
26   2 Spiky Gloombas, 2 Boos
27   Bandit, Boo, Bandit, Boo, Bandit
28   2 Lakitus, 2 Bob-ombs - Let the Lakitus toss Spiny Eggs
29   2 Bob-ombs, 2 Boos
31   1 Dark Koopa, 2 Parabuzzies
32   2 Hyper Clefts, 1 Parabuzzy
33   4 Parabuzzies
34   4 Shady Koopas
35   5 Flower Fuzzies
36   1 Dark Koopa, 2 Parabuzzies
37   2 Hyper Clefts, 1 Parabuzzy
38   4 Parabuzzies
39   4 Shady Koopas
41   4 Dark Paratroopas
42   1 Bulky Bob-omb, 1 Poison Pokey, 1 Spiky Parabuzzy - Let Poison Pokey clone
43   2 Lava Bubbles, 1 Poison Pokey, 1 Bulky Bob-omb -Fire Drive the Lava Bubbles
44   2 Poison Pokeys, 2 Spiky Parabuzzies - Let Poison Pokey clone
45   2 Spiky Parabuzzies, 2 Lava Bubbles -Fire Drive the Lava Bubbles
46   4 Dark Paratroopas
47   1 Bulky Bob-omb, 1 Poison Pokey, 1 Spiky Parabuzzy - Let Poison Pokey clone
48   2 Lava Bubbles, 1 Poison Pokey, 1 Bulky Bob-omb -Fire Drive the Lava Bubbles
49   2 Poison Pokeys, 2 Spiky Parabuzzies - Let Poison Pokey clone
51   2 Badge Bandits, 1 Ice Puff
52   4 Ice Puffs
53   4 Dark Boos
54   1 Red Chomp, 2 Ice Puffs
55   4 Moon Clefts
56   2 Badge Bandits, 1 Ice Puff
57   4 Ice Puffs
58   4 Dark Boos
59   1 Red Chomp, 2 Ice Puffs
61   2 Dark Lakitus, 1 Dark Craw - Let Dark Lakitu toss Sky Blue Spiny Eggs
62   4 Dry Bones - Let the Dry Bones clone
63   1 Dark Wizzerd; 2 Dry Bones - Let the Dry Bones clone
64   1 Frost Piranha, 2 Dark Lakitus - Let Dark Lakitu toss Sky Blue Spiny Eggs
65   1 Dark Craw, 1 Dark Lakitu - Let Dark Lakitu toss Sky Blue Spiny Eggs
66   2 Dark Lakitus, 1 Dark Craw - Let Dark Lakitu toss Sky Blue Spiny Eggs
67   4 Dry Bones - Let the Dry Bones clone
68   1 Dark Wizzerd; 2 Dry Bones - Let the Dry Bones clone
69   1 Frost Piranha; 2 Dark Lakitus - Let Dark Lakitu toss Sky Blue Spiny Eggs
71   1 Wizzerd, 2 Chain Chomps
72   1 Dark Koopatrol, 2 Chain Chomps
73   5 Phantom Embers - Fire Drive the Phantom Embers
74   2 Swoopulas, 2 Wizzerds/2 Dark Koopatrols
75   4 Chain Chomps
76   1 Wizzerd, 2 Chain Chomps
77   1 Dark Koopatrol, 2 Chain Chomps
78   5 Phantom Embers - Fire Drive the Phantom Embers
79   2 Swoopulas, 2 Wizzerds/2 Dark Koopatrols
81   5 Spunias
82   1 Dark Bristle, 3 Arantulas
83   4 Arantulas
84   1 Piranha Plant, 3 Spunias OR 4 Piranha Plants
85   5 Spunias
86   5 Spunias
87   1 Dark Bristle, 3 Arantulas
88   4 Arantulas
89   1 Piranha Plant, 3 Spunias OR 4 Piranha Plants
91   5 Elite Wizzerds
92   2 Poison Puff, 1 Swampire, 1 Amazy Dayzee
93   3 Bob-ulks, 1 Amazy Dayzee
94   1 Swampire, 1 Elite Wizzerd, 2 Amazy Dayzees
95   5 Elite Wizzerds
96   2 Poison Puff, 1 Swampire, 1 Amazy Dayzee
97   3 Bob-ulks, 1 Amazy Dayzee
98   1 Swampire, 1 Elite Wizzerd, 2 Amazy Dayzees
99   5 Elite Wizzerds

jdaster64

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #142 on: August 13, 2013, 03:33:23 PM »
So I'm considering doing another PHPR sometime this week before classes start up, as I've been bored out of my mind living alone with minimal internet access.  That and I made some embarrassingly bad decisions throughout the YouTube run I have up, and I got some spectacularly easy enemy sets the whole way down.

Some notes on what I'm thinking:
- Am probably going to try Mega Rush P-less (but definitely not partner death-less)
- Probably going to do it with Power Plus, rather than Pretty Lucky/Heart Finder/Item Hog.
Pros: Extra attack power will make Fire Drive wipe out mid-late enemy sets considerably more easily without partners
Cons: Slight drop in evasion, lack of Item Hog. I doubt I'll miss Heart Finder that much.
- Might still do it itemless? I'm kind of worried about how that'd turn out, though, since I won't have Item Hog.
- Will definitely use the curse, for the extra Star Point potential if nothing else.
- Will definitely NOT use Unsimplifier for the Bonetail battle; so long as I have 39+ in my audience I can fill Star Power in two attacks, but it would take 120+ to fill it completely anyway.  That and Superguarding would be a ton easier.  I'd even use Simplifier if I didn't know it doesn't help with the guard timing.
- Might buy/use FP Drain? I feel like it could make FP considerably less tight in some situations, especially the final fight.

Too bad Bonetail has 2 DEF, else I could Power Bounce him, garnering a ton more damage per FP, and replenishing SP considerably faster.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 03:35:01 PM by jdaster64 »

milesluigi

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #143 on: August 13, 2013, 11:28:10 PM »
Sounds like you're going to have a rough time regardless if you're going to do it without Mega Rush P. But, the Power Plus should come in handy for extra powerful Fire Drives. It won't help too much for Power Bounces.

FP Drain on Bonetail isn't a bad idea, though, you're taking an inherently longer battle in the name of keeping FP high. Add Happy Flower and Pity Flower, and you should be able to have at least 2FP for nearly every turn. On the other hand, without FP Drain and with Power Plus, you can do 1 damage with a normal hammer attack, and get a stylish for more SP.

WayoshiM

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #144 on: August 13, 2013, 11:57:17 PM »
Lol, I'm not going to be bored for awhile as I've finally gotten to Dream Team just 2 days ago. :P

... FP Drain? That's available that early in the game? From the badge shop?

You're just as well off using Fire Drive on Bonetail. Getting burn will make up for it, and it's probably hard (1 frame) to get beyond 7 jumps on him.

You sure you won't miss Heart Finder? And no items too? Alright...
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jdaster64

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #145 on: August 14, 2013, 03:08:48 PM »
Well, just finished the run, and on my first try! I did end up bringing in a handful of items, but I only ended up using one POW Block outside of what I got in the Pit.

Some various thoughts:
- Mega Rush P was hardly missed, no joke. It made the 20s considerably harder, though (which were incidentally the site of my only two failed runs to date). Pretty much any enemies that I would have used it on ended up being bearable anyway.
- Heart Finder was sorely missed in the 60s for bringing back partners; that set of floors was far and away the hardest without partners to help me grind out harder battles.
- Item Hog and Pretty Lucky #2 were missed anout as much as Attack FX Y. Don't kniw if the drop rate was unusually high or what, but I never ended up short on items, and was very conservative with what I did have. Likewise, I never really needed an evasion boost.
- I forgot to use FP Drain, so I don't know how the final fight would have gone with it.
- Power Plus was just sick; being able to do 2-2 jumps and 6-power Fire Drives was completely invaluable throughout the run.
- Average luck with enemy sets, but they had a TON of held items. Nothing terribly debilitating; but the two sets of Elite Wizzerds had four or five items between them.
- No Fright Masks used, only three or four Movers, but obviously no Amazy kills, so I ended up at a reasonable level 23 this time.
- The 60s were absolutely hideous, with a ton of fighting at 10-15 Mario HP; conversely, the 80s and 90s went absolutely perfectly. I Superguarded roughly 30% of Mario hits by Dark Craws, but upwards of 80% on all of the 80s (I think I had a run of twelve superguards on Dark Bristles alone).
- Two Last Stands P = win. I kept Goombella alive tons longer than I would have otherwise.

The run went really great overall, much better than the one I have on my YouTube channel. Considering doing some live commentary, but I don't know. Three and a half hours+ of commentary could get repetitive pretty fast.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 05:07:16 PM by jdaster64 »

milesluigi

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #146 on: August 14, 2013, 05:46:00 PM »
Hey, if you need help with commentary, you're kinda talking to the right person.  :awesome: I'll PM you my Skype.

jdaster64

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #147 on: August 19, 2013, 02:25:18 PM »
Whenever I do finish the videos, at any rate, I'm planning on posting my "Pit of 100 Trials Enemy Guide" that I had handy along with them.  I'm trying to decide if I should make a little reference sheet for Star Power as well; there's only a couple of formulas for Star Power gain, and both are really easy to calculate on the fly (assuming you can estimate square roots reasonably well; even if you can't, the first digit is enough to go off of).

Also, watching floor 98 of my run again gave me a great idea for a video I should post separately in the meantime.  All I can say is that it involves status effect weaknesses.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 02:58:14 PM by jdaster64 »

T-Rex-quisite

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #148 on: January 26, 2014, 12:52:28 PM »
I've been reading your guys' Pre-Hooktail runs for a while in TTYD, and so I decided to try one of my own.

The thing that's special about my run is, I did it without superguarding once. If anything, it really proves that the Lucky badges are more necessary to defeat Bonetail than superguarding itself. The playlist is here, and each video is 10 floors long except the final battle:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeD5MAdnF2dh7kxmnXDs933hJahxVV22x

I really respect you guys as Paper Mario players, so I would love it if you took a look at these videos and gave me some feedback.

If I do a Pre-Hooktail Run again, I'm doing a 10 HP run. Sounds like avengah has already done that, but didn't get to record it. That is, he did a Level Zero Pit Run after he finished the game. Also, I think a Pre-Hooktail run without Fire Drive would be interesting. Only problem with that is, the Bonetail battle would take like two hours with just Piercing Blow :p (unless Periled Multibonks really helped).

Thanks for your attention, you guys! What do you think?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 08:42:32 PM by WayoshiM »

WayoshiM

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Re: ...Wow (Pre-Hooktail Pit Discussion)
« Reply #149 on: February 05, 2014, 08:45:52 PM »
I see you grinded up max coins to pay for items to take care of enemies that can easily become Superguard-only.

Which is fine, but I always felt the point of a Pre-Hooktail was to show how you don't have to do any grinding to do this challenge.

(I'm only going to watch parts of the 70s onward)

I was going to say you beefed up FP too much (obviously you have to beef up HP), but I see deep in the Pit, especially in the 80s, you have to have your extra partner take some hits for you just because Mario was going to die otherwise, so more Fire Drives are needed.

You didn't even use luck badges at all except for Bonetail? Dang son.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 09:05:26 PM by WayoshiM »
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